Midweek Cuckoo: Danie Krugel

I just submitted this story idea to Carte Blanche, a local investigative reporting show that is quite well known for exposing scams, frauds and corruption in South Africa. This was in reaction to the episode aired on Sunday, featuring the following insert:

 What if a special scientific device could track a missing person anywhere across the globe using only a single strand of hair? Or trace diamonds, or even deadly bacteria? Most would agree that it would be the invention of the millennium. It may sound far-fetched, but a local Bloemfontein inventor claims it’s highly possible with his secret device. Carte Blanche puts him to the test.

Carte Blanche needs to do a follow up story on Danie Krugel (featured on Carte Blanche 2006 12 03), the inventor of a device that supposedly can find people using only a clipping of their hair. The story aired last Sunday was credulous to a point that is not what I have come to expect from Carte Blanche. The same level of investigative journalism that is used in stories about other scams and frauds was not brought to bear on this story, and instead it almost seemed as if Carte Blanche wanted to believe his claims without really bothering to check them. Items that were not followed up on are:

Only suporting interviews were made. Where are the interviews with people Danie has ‘helped’ who do not support the validity of his claim – see for example this article in the PE Herald: http://www.theherald.co.za/herald/2006/11/01/news/n05_01112006.htm

The couple in question are quite obviously talking about Danie (unless there’s someone else in South Africa claiming he can find people with hair clippings and a mysterious device), and they say that he and his device told him that their son was alive and well and moving all over the country, when in actual fact his skeleton was in the Knysna Forest. Add to that the fact that on the story shown last Sunday, in one clip while the voice over spoke of Danie’s various successes, the camera focused on a list of what could only be supposed to be these successes, which included ‘Skeleton in Knysna Forest’. If Danie is reporting this as a success, and the parents of the boy are ‘still bitter’ about his involvement, do the producers of Carte Blanche not think that there is some scammery going on here?

In addition, interviewing a microbiologist who is obviously this man’s friend is not what anyone would consider balanced reporting. How about interviewing an impartial forensics expert who actually knows how much effort is required to extract DNA from hair?

How about demanding to know why Danie has not published his findings for the scientific community to scrutiny? If this device does what he claims, he would be in line for the Nobel prize. Why is he appearing on television instead of publishing in peer review forensics or engineering journals? Why is he seeking publicity instead of scientific review?

Also, how about getting an actual scientist familiar with correct testing of products and claims to design a test that Danie cannot fake his way around? How about subjecting him to a proper double blind test, where there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that Danie could have ascertained the position of the target by guessing, or by overhearing a conversation, or by asking leading questions? How about not hiding people in his home town? How about hiding the person in the same building? How about seeing how well it works when cutting a piece of hair from a wig, then hiding the wearer of the wig somewhere, and the wig somewhere else, and not telling Danie it’s a wig? There is an endless list of better tests that would easily show whether Danie is cleverly playing the producers of Carte Blanche, or actually has a device that works. Any person with experience in designing experimental tests will be able to assist Carte Blanche in this.

How about asking Danie why it picks up the person, and not the hair on their hairbrush? In the course of a lifetime we drop hair clear across the country – how does Danie’s machine differentiate between the hair on your head and the hair in your bed? Volume? How about doing the experiment with someone who is balding?

Overall, the level of investigative journalism displayed in this piece was highly lacking, and a followup where Carte Blanche exposes this man for the obvious fraud he is, is needed. Will Carte Blanche really be satisfied with leaving this story as it stands, knowing that families of missing persons could potentially be giving their hopes and rands to a charlatan who will lead them on a wild goose chase around the country, as he did with the Gouws family? If Carte Blanche is so easily taken in by this man’s claims, what hope do the viewers have? Carte Blanche has a responsibility to interview scientists, forensics experts, and unhappy customers, rather than only interviewing friends and the small handful of ‘hits’ he could easily have obtained by chance or clever guessing.

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53 Responses to “Midweek Cuckoo: Danie Krugel”

  1. Just had a brief read through the post. I pause a moment as I gather my thoughts.

    Coming from a laboratory where hair was one of our pet projects (or areas of interest) I have some knowledge of the subject. Having said this I am open to correction as I am by no means an expert (competently knowledgeable is where I’m at). It is my understanding that one needs a hair follicle in order to extract DNA, not just hair clippings (implying cutting the dead and keratinised part of the hair). Also I’d be fascinated to know how he claims to be able to track people. DNA is a changing thing, but we also have sequences in common with relatives. Does he isolate common genes that people use to do DNA testing (such as in forensics) ?

    Anyhow – I believe I will have to put my cynical scientist hat on for this one. I need evidence that I can see and test. And I agree that Carte Blanche seems to have dropped the ball on this one in their usual thorough investigations. Didn’t see the show – no m-net (mutter, mutter)

  2. I saw the insert on Carte Blance and much the same questions popped into my head. Here you have an invention which could be the biggest thing since the wheel, yet this guy is so secretive about how it works and so reluctant to share his knowledge with the scientific community.
    It seemed more like “wizardry” to me.
    Lets hope your submission inspires Carte Blanche to do a follow-up.

  3. This same nutcase was featured on SABC 2 a few years ago. I never saw the programme but was outraged that SABC 2 could have been so gullible as to tout his amazing device on TV. ( I thought it was quite a coincidence that he’s being given air time again so soon after that boy’s skeleton was found and I posted the Herald link in a comment).

    Having a loved one disappear from your life with no trace, never knowing what has happened to them must be the most traumatic experience in the world. At least if they die you can come to terms with that, but if they disappear you imagine the worst and most depraved things that a human mind can come up with.

    For him to be preying on such vulnerable people is an outrage and he should be arrested. Even highly intelligent people will grasp at straws in the vain hope that they’ll finally find their missing person in that state of mind.

    We should start a campaign!

  4. Someone has posted a transcript of the Carte Blanche episode:

    http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=773155

    This man is the current Director of Health and Safety at the Central University of Technology of the Free State!!! OMG! and an ex-policeman. sheesh.

  5. From what I can gather, Mr Krugel is simply the head of their campus police. I very much doubt that he has any involvement in academia other than building a reputation as a crank.

    However, you should not take my word for it. Ask him yourself by E-mailing dkrugel@cut.ac.za, telephoning +27 51 5073609 or faxing +27 51 5073018.

    Time for an interview, Moonflake?

  6. A happy birthday for yesterday I believe?

  7. gnomeza: you would be correct. It was a great birthday – telkom finally connected my adsl, and the govt dropped the petrol price. And we went to see the Most Amazing Show at the Baxter. Genius.

    Archarad: i personally don’t see how he’s identifying one person’s hair from another without DNA, and you certainly can’t get DNA from the dead bits! Seriously, if this guy’s device works, it not only revolutionises physics, but biology too!

    Chitty: refusing to explain how something works is a prime indicator of quackery at work. That reminds me, i should publish a list of the signs. Quackwatch has a good one.

    Bast: Thanks again for the Herald link – the second i saw ‘skeleton in Knysna forest’ i knew i had read something about that before. The official carte blanche transcript is the first link on the post, but the comments on the forum you link to are yet more support that this guy’s claims make no sense.

    Salman: what? a crackpot inventor trying to associate himself with an academic institute when he’s just a glorified rent-a-cop? i am shocked to my core. And as far as interviews go, while i like to think that i would handle it like Hunter S. Thompson, i’d probably end up screaming at the guy down the phone, and then bashing the receiver onto the table repeatedly. Well, actually, now that i think about it, HST might have done that too.

    I’ve discovered a couple more things about Danie.. follow post coming soon

  8. [...] Following up on this week’s Midweek Cuckoo, let’s examine Danie Krugel’s interview a little more closely:   Ruda: “How did you get involved in this area looking for people?” [...]

  9. I’m glad I found your blog – some very interesting reading.

    Fantastic claims with only anecdotal evidence. Sounds like a perfect puff piece for any “investigative journalist”. And free publicity for frauds/gullible people like Krugel.

  10. I do not recall specifically mention of DNA by Danie. I think everyone just assumed that, because it is a scientifically proven method. Anyway he claimed to find oil and diamonds as well. I would like to see the DNA for those :-)

    I also noticed in the few clips on TV that he uses triangulation, so he knows the direction of the object. So GPS has nothing to do with it. He also mentioned finding humans up to X meters (referring to a Euclidean distance) and not area as would have been the case if he was using a satellite.

    My guess is – if at all possible it has to do with molecular radiation. I would be surprised at the distance though.

    My biggest question is whether his device has any emission or is it passive?

  11. Danie has specified DNA in other interviews. Remember, this isn’t the first we’ve heard of him. see here for example.

    Also, triangulation using multiple satellites is exactly how you get a GPS reading. Each satellite gives you a sphere with the position lying somewhere on the surface of the sphere, because it can only tell the distance to the signal, not the direction it came from. Therefore you need multiple spheres to locate the intersector – you cannot get a GPS reading with one satellite, you need at least three, as you need three spheres to find a single common intersector. here’s how it works.

    As far as molecular radiation goes, the detection of this radiation (which is caused by the vibration of molecules) is called ‘vibrational spectroscopy’ and it is an existing and thriving field. The requirements for measuring these signals generally involve scattering laser beams off the molecules, often with the sample being kept at sub-zero temperatures – I think Danie would have a hard time doing that at a distance. All vibrational spectroscopy occurs in labs with very delicate and powerful equipment, at short distances. Again, for this to work, Danie would have to be breaking most of the known laws of physics.

    Also, to answer your last question, in the transcript Danie says that he can transmit and receive.

    If what Danie says doesn’t make sense to you – like how he can find people using their DNA (which is what he has said) and yet can also find diamonds and oil, you may want to consider that the inconsistencies are because he is lying through his teeth. Remember, we have ONLY his word on any of this because he refuses to patent the device, publish his findings, or tell anyone how it works. Classic signs that he has nothing.

  12. [...] is because some interested parties are attempting to contact a local ‘inventor’ (with whom we are all too familiar) to assist them in finding the girl, offering a flight to portugal and a serious reward. They have [...]

  13. Monsoon Says:

    Now after tonight’s Carte Blanche, where is the sceptics???

  14. Objective Says:

    I’ve watched Carte Blanche last night and it was in fact the first time that i’ve heard of this ‘secret science’ of Danie Krugel. I’m not going into to try and go into the science of things to attack or defend the possibility of this so called invention. What i do want to go into is the consequences. I’m not defending anybody, but the consecuences of such an invention(if actual) would be far greater than the wealth or fame of one man. Sceptics can’t shoot Danie off by saying that his unwillingness to explain his invention is a sign that all is a hoax. Why is the United States so paranoid about the fact that Iran want to develop their own nuclear technology? Safety? Sure, but it’s also about power and control. Whether the technology exists or not…. it’s still an intriguing story. The words of a ‘Lord of the rings’ character comes to my mind….’my precious’ Do not forget that history is written and determined by those who are in control.

  15. Um, no. The US (and most of Europe) is wary of Iran’s nuclear program because it’s pretty clear that the end result will be nuclear weapons, with which the unstable authoritarian theocrats will attempt to threaten the West and their neighbours while using the newfound shield to continue their overt support for destabilising terrorist groups around the region. If Iran were to truly commit to only the peaceful civilian use of nuclear technology and grant total access to inspectors, there’d be no problem.

    But that’s all beside the point, rather off-topic and not worth discussing here. The key question is whether this Krugel guy’s invention is for real. Thus far, none of the purported evidence claiming that it is have been anything close to convincing. Just think of the implications: The man claims to have an invention that could locate any missing or wanted person on earth, along with diamonds, gold and other minerals. In fact, such a device would catapult him onto the international stage, winning him widespread accolades (and Nobel Prizes galore) plus untold wealth, simply because it would be so utterly revolutionary. Yet after three years, he’s still appearing on the same TV shows, making the same lame claims and the same weak promises about the future. Excuse me if the alarm bells in my head start ringing.

    What you do not understand is that all the skeptics who have responded here would *love* Danie’s machine to be real. The sheer excitement of something that would rewrite all the science textbooks, find untold missing people, capture fugitives and a host of other things would be awesome to be involved in, not to mention the benefit it would bring to mankind. But on the other end of the scale, if this man is (as the evidence would suggest) a scam-artist and a charlatan, then he is guilty of criminally misleading the vulnerable and traumatised and should be exposed for it.

    Carte Blanche should be ashamed. They’ve never really been that professional in their investigations, but the recent stuff plumbs new depths. An entire show based on the claims of Krugel and some psychic, accompanied by images of the missing girls’ mothers crying as wounds are re-opened and false hope is given that they may soon have closure. And nothing was found.

  16. I admit, due to ignorance / lack of television enthusiasm, last night was the first time that I’ve heard of Krugel’s “invention”. At the end of the program I felt like an hour of my life has been wasted. Reading this blog confirms that suspicion.

    Surprisingly the Carte Blanche team found more male than female remains on the “ hotspot” indicated by the “invention”. This leaves us with more questions than answers. Did Carte Blanche stumbled upon an unknown serial killer’s dumpsite? But nobody reported these victims missing within the same period of time.

    So, before running off to report the find, we have to consider the cemetery just a few hundred yards and uphill from the “hotspot”. The “hotspot” area is a derelict dam. Is it possible that remains from the cemetery were left in this area during floods? Krugel, an ex-policeman, knows about the cemetery and the dam, all ex-policemen knows about it – the police training college is just up the road.

    The DNA tested was inconclusive – not enough sample material. I am no DNA expert but one strand of hair that directs Krugel over a distance of hundreds of kilometres cannot be compared to bones many times the size of that strand?

    Krugel claims that he tested the invention by tracking his son sleeping 2m away. Thereafter he increased the distance. Why can he not pinpoint the remains within two metres of their location? Finding remains after 18 years in an area the size of a rugby field gives him too much leeway. He found a drum of oil at the exact spot.

    I think the families of the van Rooyen victims should seriously consider suing Carte Blanche and Krugel for psychological trauma and the raised expectations that this whole farce brought onto them.

  17. Tech-King Says:

    Call me a sucker, I believe Danie’s device can work… no-one here would have believed; GPS technology, mobile phone technology, laser eye surgery; before the technology facts were made available… 4FS!! He can not reveal all this already; we will get a “second Bill Gates” that lawfully steals the principle to benefit himself!!!

  18. I saw Carte Blanche last night… Danie Krugel is a joke. I spit in his and the “investigation team” of Carte Blanche’s collective eye.

  19. Guys…shhh. Be careful what you say. Don’t just criticise Danie. I think he is getting angry now. He will FIND you with his machine and beem you to his home planet together with Carte Blanche staff and you will be sorry!

  20. VoiceOfReason Says:

    Tech-King brings up a couple of interesting points, for all the wrong reasons.

    Now Danie’s “technology” is nothing like any of the above. Mobile phone technology as we know it today is the product of a looooooooooooong chain of technology evolution. (Any of you raising the point that 100 years the cellphone would have been science fiction are completely disregarding the evolutionary nature of this technology. A cellphone is a RADIO. Yes, a RADIO. Much like that lo tech thingymabobby that your granny used.) Laser eye surgery, ditto. GPS didn’t just random materialise either. It took large research teams with impressive academic credentials years to develop anything resembling workable prototypes, much less launch them to the general public. Apart from the fact now that billions of dollars were sunk into their development. And let’s not forget that whilst developing all of these technologies, countless peer reviewed research papers were published.

    Hence it makes absolutely no sense to claim that these technologies were delivered to us in anything resembling the way that Danie goes about his thing.

    (a) He works alone, (b) he’s no rocket scientist by any stretch of imagination, (c) his invention seems to have materialised at the same stage of maturity it is today mere weeks or months after his initial tinkering in 2004 [cf: he claims to have started with the Leigh Matthews media coverage, and the first media references to his invention in a working state are from 2004, soon after], (d) none of the scientific bases he claims have anything whatsoever to do with what he’s doing [DNA is not available when tracking oil or diamonds; satellite tracking is a complete minsnomer as it stands, seeing as GPS satellites don’t track, they send out signals which specialised electronic equipment designed to certain well-published standards can use in mathematical calculations — i.e. it’s purely one-directional, it’s pure standardised maths, and most importantly, you CANNOT track something using “satellite” [GPS] if it doesn’t have a tracking unit installed, much the same way you cannot track your lost wallet with satellite except if you have a GPS chip with some RF transmitter installed], (e) research papers, what research papers?

    The best way to ensure your invention (which you’re talking shiteloads about in the popular press) is NOT stolen is to (a) patent it and (b) publish it for peer review in a reputable publications.

    It is a complete bullshit argument that you cannot divulge any details for fear of having someone steal it. That is EXACTLY why patent law exists. And don’t come with this conspiracy nonsense of multinational corporations coming and crushing you with their legal teams after they stole your invention. Patenting something this radical and new would make for a watertight legal defense of your intellectual property every day, even if a 12 year rapper wannabe representing you.

    Fiddling around with something revolutionary without having it patented and published is a surefire way to have it stolen, provided of course there is anything remotely real.

    So let’s leave paranoid, ill-informed “wish it were true so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt” arguments out of this. Nothing about this okes story adds up. He is a charlatan.

  21. Geez VoiceofReason, what a long way(7 paragraphs) of saying Danie is a charlatan. I know for a fact that the USA gov is is on the market for a tool like Danie’s. They need to find a lot of people…and things e.g. Bin Laden, Big Foot, Easter Bunny , more oil and a president with a brain.

    Danie boet , surely you can use a few million $.

  22. VoiceOfReason Says:

    Ah, I’m still seething about the coverage that madman got, and the absolute depths to which “reputable media” can sink. I loathe the fact that Carte Blanche can go and blackmail Discovery with the “facts” one week, and then go and put a charlatan up to work his magic on something so sensitive as the disappearance of innocent children.

    Anyhoo, another couple of issues I see here: how does this man track down oil to an exact location, if there is undoubtedly more of the identically same oil in the nearest parking garage, fuel station, or at Sasolburg?! Why does he manage to track down the bacteria when undoubtedly there is a larger colony of the same bacteria at the nearest pile of steaming dog excrement? (May I remind the gullible reader that bacteria do NOT have the same genetic diversity as humans since they reproduce asexually, and any two bacteria of the same species in the same general area at roughly the same time will be more alike than identical twins?) May I also remind the gullible reader that, as a hairy man, I have probably shaved off around 5 kilograms of facial (and cranial) hair over the past decade, most of which is not to be found at my present location…? May I remind the gullible reader that all hair of the van Rooyen victims will have decomposed, and most of it probably scattered in the ground water, at which point it has chemically about as much in common with hair as does paper? (And it must be the hair he’s tracing, and not the general DNA matter, seeing as we have already established that he can trace “like with like”, trace the same can of oil given a sample of *that particular can of oil*, trace the same colony of bacteria given a sample, etc.)

    If you believe this Danie scamster, you undoubtedly believe that 50 generations back we were grazing peacfully with T-rexes in the lush jungles of the Middle East.

  23. Tech-King Says:

    LOL… Because most people are way to “technology-disabled” and he refuses to tell how it works… they simply discard the possibility that it might be working because they do not have the intellect to figure it out!

    About the whole patent thing… would you patent a memory module before you had a PC? Would be stupid because you would need to patent a whole bunch of things before the end product… have patience (like Danie said, he needs a lot of development before the end product) and patent the whole damm thing!

    Thus the reason why he will have success and most people won’t, “never rush a good thing”

  24. Tech-King, are you also from planet Bloem?

  25. Watched the broadcast last night and was completely intrigued. Was skeptical however, and thought I should do some research. I came across this blog, and quite quickly realized how many people without the advantage (or dis) of a skeptic’s mind, or the desire to verify statements have been misled to believe in the potentiality of such ‘technology’ existing. I am going to write a small exploratory piece on my own blog (although it is not my typical subject matter), and direct interested readers to this site. I hope you don’t mind.

    hj
    UJAMAA- http://conscious-revolution.blogspot.com

  26. Tech-King Says:

    If I provide a hair sample would you find me?… I know someone that could!

  27. Michael Smith Says:

    My opinion – i hope its real.

    I’m a huge skeptic and i think looking at the guy (with his stylish mustache and dodgy hairdo) coming from SA with little to no history of science does seem a little too much. At the same time – if this is real and it can be done – its about the biggest discovery since we claim to have landed on the moon (i’m far more skeptic of that happening than Danie’s people finding machine).

    If this can work – and based on what he’s shown the world it can – then i really think that he’s not only going to be famous, but he’s gonna help the world out in a huge way.
    If it turns out that the box actually isn’t based on quantum physics or similar and is “simply” that he is psychic etc – then thats cool too.

    Before you say that this invention can’t be real, and its “too good to be true” go and have a look at Tesla (Nicola i believe was his first name) and look at what all he invented at his time but yet was all shunned for being “too much” despite him proving its value many times over. Further looking at Tesla also shows that many of his inventions were never fully divulged due to the power it would give being in the wrong hands (could you imagine terrorists able to pin point presidents down to a meter?)

    Before i get too derailed, the sentiment of this post is – if he can do it, magic, machine, aliens or otherwise – he is a value to the world. Even if he gets it right once out of every hundred times he can still help thousands.

  28. [...] interesting to discover that Danie Krugel had appeared on Carte Blanche again last night, by a sudden slew of new comments on old posts on the [...]

  29. Please add all new comments regarding Danie Krugel to the latest post here.

  30. New low for Carte Blanche

    I couldn’t believe my eyes and ears this week when Carte Blanche aired a Gert van Rooyen story that was about as believable as Girvan Lubbe’s malaria watch.
    I was dismayed that Ruda Landman put her name to this nonsense. There were no cold …

  31. Objective Says:

    Sceptics shouldn’t criticise him based on science as they know it or reason. Conventional thinking wouldn’t change the world. We possibly live in a universe with more dimensions than 3X space and 1X time. Can anyone remember what happened to Aristolte when he claimed that the earth was not the centre of the universe? He got locked up. And Danie should get locked up if he’s a fraud. But I cant see why everyone wants to lock him up so quickly. The only conclusion I can think of is that those people who criticise so VERY strongly made up their minds (about a lot of things) a long time ago. Lets hope that time will tell. My guess is that he’s got some psychic ability that he’s not even aware of himself. Don’t think Carte Blanche would take such a stupid risk to be fooled or to be part of a scam!

  32. Please read my comment on the Ruda Landman Carte Blanche of last Sunday evening at http://www.news24.com/News24/Columnists/Guest_Column/0,,2-1630-1647_2156231,00.html. Or visit Sceptic South Africa’s website and read my blog there at http://www.scepticsa.com.

  33. Thanks, George, i most certainly will. I’ve updated the latest post to include a reference to your column. Keep up the most excellent work!

  34. FlatWorld Says:

    A mystery it is and it will remain difficult to believe! But a lot of lies are told around here as well without confirming the facts first! Who said Danie didn’t file for a patent? I think somebody left a comment on George Claassen’s article on News24 to state that she saw the entry! It is thus a “Patent Pending”. At least give reason a chance here guys! I don’t think it is that easy to get a patent registered without demonstrating it! That will imply that that part has been done as well! So maybe it is time for some cowards around here that hide behind there pseudonomes while calling Danie by his name, to rather use the useful contact info to get a story from him! If his patent is not secure yet, he may stil be reluctant to talk but afterwards there should not be any problem because a patent should be accessable and should have some decent description associated with it! Maybe we should all call the patent office and complain that they are trying to grant an illegal patent based on non-science! I mean, even it would have worked, it would be wonderful to withhold this from the world, don’t you think! Imagine after this is registered what the world would become like.

    YOU CAN RUN BUT YOU CAN NEVER HIDE!!!!!!! Including George Claassen who may be the most irritating and shallow columnist that I have ever encountered on News24.

  35. @FlatWorld
    I think you are being slightly too defensive when people are really just exercising their rights to skepticism. No one, or at least very few are outright disregarding the possibility of Danie’s claims or supposed inventions. It just doesn’t add up. You seem like an intelligent person, don’t you realize the for a scientific hypothesis to be accepted you must first go through a standardized process of logical conclusion. Scrutiny to highest form is also just as important. To prove something as fact, you must not be able to disprove it, and unfortunately this does not seem to be the case. Think of all the multi-national Pharmeceuticals that have supposedley ‘made new advancements’ on certain drugs, and yet these are only available to Africans living in devastating conditions. This is despicable. Human guinea pigs are only permissible when there is informed consent. I don’t know if the parents of the missing girls were in fact provided with this informed consent, and if they were then I think it is necessary for Carte Blanche to reveal the possible flaws in Danie’s science.

    Just my view, the view of an ignorant coward.

    @Everyone
    If you have any info on possible flaws in corroborating facts that Carte Blanche has made in the past, post them on my blog. Likewise, please post anything that confirms their commitment to responsible journalism. I would also like to know any part Carte Blanche played in the Apartheid/Anti-apartheid movements. This is in no way a slander campaign, but just a curious individual trying to find some info.

    UJAMAA- http://conscious-revolution.blogspot.com

  36. FlatWorld Says:

    H juma: I actually agree with you and I like your approach in bringing it over. I am also concerned that it was a possible con and I think the consequences will be felt in all directions if it is true. But I am holding my breath first to see what materialises because something must come out of this cookpot! What I don’t like to see is the insensitivity with which certain people attack others integrity by using made up so-called facts. I loose my trust in humanity per se because I don’t see a real care and support structure in it anymore. We are not all equally strong but most of us try very hard and if we have integrity in what we do it should be respected. Let us say this guy is right and he has to read what is been said about him, will it make him feel good about himself and motivated to carry on. Is it human! That is why any attack should be tempered and only true facts should be used!

  37. Danie Krugel’s Invention is definitly a figment of his imagination or a con. You only have to look as far as other frauds such as Uri Geller, to see how lucrative scams like this can be. Even if all the worlds scientists were to work on creating a machine the size of Danies to decode DNA, they could not come up with this. There is also this distinctive fact ,chemicals are not able to transverse atmospheric conditions and will be carried with the winds etc, so how is Danie able to draw a straight line to the source of the chemicals he is trying to locate.

    Also It only takes common sense to know that if this was true, He would be kidnapped by the CNA and used to track down Bin Laden

  38. The Central News Agency kidnaps people? That might explain their prices.

    Jokes aside i assume you meant CIA :)

  39. [...] in Science, Woo at 1:54 pm by Ben The Observer publishes a report about Madeleine McCann and Danie Krugel with talk of ‘forensic DNA tests‘ that are essentially magic beans. Serious broadsheet [...]

  40. [...] ludicrous nature of this device has already been noted by moonflake here, but I’ll go through this story anyway and see if I can add. Krugel, of the University of [...]

  41. Psychic Bill Says:

    I have a feeling that the daniekrugelfacts.com site was put together by DK himself.

    What I would like to see is a site called http://www.daniekrugelwatch.org where all DK info could be aggregated.

  42. look_from_another_angle Says:

    After reading many sites, blogs & comments the majority of replies and reports are skeptical (normal human reaction to the unexplained) and a few hopeful (the optimists) however no one has even tried to explain the possibility that this device may be plausable. There are enough skeptics and debunkers I sense nothing has changed since the middle ages when one could get killed believing that earth was not flat. If there are some boffins out there and for a moment let’s imagine that this device might be real, these are the questions not being answered that might steer you in the right direction to finding the truth. The questions to ask is.
    1. Danie Krugel is an ex policeman, who most likely does not have the accumen for quantum physics, so who around him does? Someone had to provide the technology.

    2. Most articles on him say “Danie Krugel the spokesman”. If this is the case then others are hiding behind him… who are his business associates.

    3. Who ever this group of people are they are foremost businessmen (i.e. the diamond connection) and perhaps Danie does have a soft heart for people and wanted to do more. The question is was it financially or morally motivated. I don’t believe that this equipment has been sold without another lurking in the background to continue with their diamond exploration.

    4. It seems unlikely that this is a ruse in front of inquisitive journalists and cameras, constantly being put to the test and proving the equipment right in all cases. A con of this magnetude would be difficult to perpetuate on an ongoing basis. Perhaps the reasoning was simply a pure heart or the cheapest form of marketing and advertising which has certainly paid off.

    5. What ever they call the device the GPS (global positioning system) is the easy part. similar to triangulation of a signal, so there is no secret in that.

    6. The core of the controversy is the terminoly “quantum physics”, which I believe is a red herring, because if it was then this is a hoax of immense magnitude that Danie should be in line for the Oscars next year. Terminology like this serves a purpose. It is so broad that the scientific community immediately laughs it off and the invention stays safe as no one will persue copying or improving on it. It may also be that the technology cannot be patented as it has already been “invented” or is of a pre existing nature that the patent will not hold ground.

    7. The terminolgy of using DNA from hair etc… is utter rubbish as diamonds, crude oil and bacteria do not have DNA, and even DNA from hair has to go through a complex and expensive testing procedure that requires hitech equipment. No the answer is simpler than that.

    8. What do all these components have in common? Energy or to be more specific frequency. It is a known fact that everything in the entire universe resonates at a certain frequency and modulation and each one is different.

    9. To the religious minded these words should ring true. And God said “I shall know each one of you by the hairs on your head”.

    10. Danie or one of his mates has found a way (which by the way already exists) of identifying the specific frequency from a test sample and by triangulation and signal strenght is able to hone in on the corresponding source.

    A thourough read on quantum physics and mechanics as well as Einsteins theories confirms that this is possible and if true now a reality. While everyone bitches and moans at the rediculous nature of this topic, Danie is laughing all the way to the bank and no one is investigating the possibilty of this invention.. hoax or not.

    While we may all rejoice one day that this invention can help find missing children etc.. it can also find the people that are trying to hide in witness protection programmes and any head of state will no longer be able to travel in secret.. just two I could quickly come up with. If true this invention also has a dark side, and to this end the powers that be will be pleased that it is considered a hoax.

  43. If the machine works on the basis of detecting frequencies radiated by the target, do the maths, based on 6-billion inhabitants of the planet, plus X-gazilion other objects that are traceable, for the sensitivity and gross range required by the RF receiver. Do-able? Sure. On a cop turned rent-a-cop’s SAPS peckitch? Not a f%^$.

    Quite telling that between his first appearance on CB and his second, he had graduated from an Isuzu bakkie to a flash BMW! ;)

  44. [...] are numerous articles (here, here, here, here) offering detailed arguments and evidence that this is real rubbish. Mr Kugel has even been [...]

  45. Have a look at http://www.daniekrugelfacts.com. There is a map where Madeleine’s body is.

  46. [...] A Moonflake post (these are excellent, by the way) [...]

  47. At long last, a group of South African skeptics have created a proper `Stop Danie Krugel’ site at http://www.stopdaniekrugel.com

  48. track a person…

  49. This technique he uses is quite genius descovery, and besides that I am glad he is using the technology to help people, perhaps it could be of more good use in the future, it can also be used to proove the workings of telepathy, one atom interacting with another on a different quantum plain and distance since time and space are never the same.
    lots of Love and hugs
    ((^_^))
    Keep up the good work :-)

  50. THIS THREAD MUST NOT DIE!!!! By golly Zana, I got a crystal ball!! It works through visual spectrometry. Wanna know your future??

  51. William hmm Interesting, so what mechanism you use for such a thing ?
    Not realy but it wopuld be interesting though…
    I predict future via patterns, and loops of repeated instances and trends.
    Love and hugs
    ((^_^))

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