Danie Krugel: First Contact

Danie Krugel phoned me on my cellphone this morning. He refused repeatedly to tell me where he got my name and number and eventually made a vague reference to it being out there on the internet. Interesting then that I can’t find it myself… can anyone else out there confirm if it’s possible to find my name and number online? (Danie – I know you’re reading this blog, if you are willing to be honest about how you got my number ‘on the internet’ then please provide a URL in the comments). I have also replied to the Carte Blanche producer who contact me to ask if they have supplied Danie with my details.

After my conversation with Danie Krugel, I am more convinced than ever that there is no functioning device. Jacob Zuma could take lessons from Danie Krugel on dodging questions. He offered to furnish me with all the ‘facts’ regarding the device if I would come and see him in Bloemfontein, which is obviously unlikely and therefore strikes me as a disingenuous offer – I did ask if he was willing to cover the cost of the flight but he declined. He also declined my offer for him to come to Cape Town. He refused to give me the ‘facts’ over the phone.

The entire conversation essentially revolved around Danie dodging questions, repeating over and over again that I didn’t ‘have all the facts’ and if I would come out to Bloemfontein he would show me, making allusions to discussions that are ongoing with various governments, and ‘research’ that is ongoing with various ‘scientists’ and a ‘university’ (although he refused to tell me the names of any of these scientists or even specify which university so it is naturally impossible to verify). He also made claims that his secrecy is related to what might happen if the device ‘fell into the wrong hands’, and that he didn’t want to talk about anything over the phone and I would have to come to Bloemfontein.

He also asked that I not blog about the conversation, but I made no promises, and anyway he contacted me. If he has nothing to hide and is willing to go on national television and be interviewed by newspapers, why is he so worried about more publicity? Or is it only positive publicity that you will accept, Danie?

Danie also made a deal with me: in the next three months, there will be some big event regarding his device. He wouldn’t give specifics, but did eventually say after some pressing that the news would be international, and big, and if it didn’t happen in three months I could call him a liar. He wouldn’t specify if it would be accompanied by a publication in a respected scientific journal, or his nomination for a nobel prize. I suspect it will merely be media coverage of some sort, which of course means very little in the world of scientific endeavour, but there you go. Remember that you heard it here first.

Danie: if you are reading this blog, as you claim to be, then please take note: I am only interested in hearing from you again by phone if you are calling to provide me with a journal reference or patent number. Otherwise, please reserve your comments to the appropriate section of this blog. We all look forward to seeing your public response – if you have nothing to hide regarding your motives, then you should have no problem making your comments public on this blog instead of phoning me in private and trying to get me not to comment about it.

Also, something I forgot to mention on the phone and really should have: the people over at the James Randi Education Foundation have $1,000,000 guaranteed for you if you can prove the device works, and are waiting for you to contact them. Your device qualifies as ‘paranormal’ under their definition in the same way that a perpetual motion device does – it breaks all the known laws of physics. If you truly have only humanitarian concerns at heart then once the ‘big news’ breaks it should be trivial for you to prove the device works, collect the winnings, and use them as funding for further research and development. This is not a joke, it is a legitimate offer by a legitimate organization and you should take them up if you are confident that your device works.

45 Responses to “Danie Krugel: First Contact”

  1. well that just takes the cake! moonflake, if it was through the googles then i have a good idea of how he could track you down, but ignoring the fact that it seems out of his reach (he doesn’t strike me as being that smart), that he would actually do that speaks volumes.

    the only way out for him that i can think of is that danie krugel is actually an alien, sent to earth with some interesting piece of far-fetched technology that does something really obscure with the side-effect of being able to track people (erm – badly) using bits of fluff.

    do we really want that kind of technology in his hands? danie, do us a favour and figure out a way of convincing us that yours are not the wrong ones – and maybe that you’re not merely talking out of your bum. all moonflake had to do was direct our attention to carte blanche in order to show us that you’re either a swindler or a fool; it’s not up to her to stop you from looking like a monkey, it’s up to you to back your shit up.

  2. From your blog entry, I deduce that the tone of the conversation was cordial yet evasive. I hope things remain cordial. If they don’t, I’m sure you will have unconditional support from those of us who read your blog.

    Full marks to you for breaking the news of the conversation so promptly. My suggestion would be that you keep objectively reporting full details of all events as they happen. I have direct experience of blog censorship stemming from legal matters. You should be perfectly OK as long as you resist the temptation to express colourful personal opinions, not that I think you would do such a thing. I am not a lawyer and cannot give you legal advice.😉 Just be careful, OK?

  3. yeehaw! what if a trusted source in bloemfontein were to visit danie? perhaps s/he could get some photos, specific answers from danie

    moonflake investigative journalism agency here we come🙂

  4. TW: very good point – how exactly do we know that the device hasn’t already fallen into the wrong hands? It’s certainly not being used to its full potential – some might consider that to be a grievous misuse.

    Salman: it was reasonably cordial – there was no name calling or swearing, but I was certainly insistent regarding the provision of proof. Danie was exactly as you said – cordial but evasive. Legal matters were not brought up, although I do not think that is an avenue that Danie wishes to follow as it may end up with the validity of his device being examined before a court of law.

  5. d@vid: I think if this goes any further my position will be that I am more than happy to assist Danie with claiming the JREF prize, and once he has made it through the preliminary evaluation then I will come to Bloemfontein to co-ordinate with local scientists the full testing of his device. If it works, he deserves all the research money he can get.

  6. Well done, Moonflake!
    Ther is no reason why things should not remain cordial. I am sure the issues that you raised and the questions asked, were on the minds of many South Africans who saw the insert on Carte Blanche. In fact, he should have expected nothiong less. If he intends to break the news internationally, he can expect more of the same.

  7. Interesting post. I’ve just been googling Mr Krugel’s invention. If I understand it correctly, the implications are absolutely astounding. No more lost pets, keep a nail cutting at home; no need for expensive vehicle tracking systems, just leave a hair cutting under the seat; errant husbands/wives can be tracked. Maybe the US can find some of bin Ladin’s dandruff and finally catch him. I await the big news break with anticipation. If I’ve misunderstood, then apologies for the sarcasm but I can’t see this invention being remotely feasible.

  8. I can see the headlines he was invisaging in three months “Controversial Blogger found by amazing invention in a shallow grave in Bloemfontein” For a man who has contacts with cellphone tracking people I do not see that it would be difficult to get you number if he could first find out your full name, which one could do very easily by looking at your work links. That gives your first name, and a simple phone call to your office could probably garner your last name.
    (It is not at all hard to get info out of ppl – I once found out the new address of a previous housemate who had defaulted on the phone bill by phoning her gym and pretending to be her)

  9. How tricksy, Bast. But it’s true, you can get all sort of info out of people.

    I think it’s quiet off of him to actually phone you and try convince you about his ‘product’. It’s like bad advertising, actually.

  10. chitty: absolutely. The international community is going to be no less critical, and demand no less evidence.

    Bryson: i’m personally wondering how he corrects for the massive amounts of hair that you lose all over the place during your entire lifetime. How often does he mistakenly get led to a clump of matted soapy hair stuck down a drain?

    Bast: here’s a piece of information that would make it very hard for even his cellphone pal to connect the dots – the phone’s not in my name. But yeah, you’re not the first person to warn me that Danie sounds like the sort who might resort to violence. I wonder how people get that impression?

    nantalith: I think Danie assumes that I will be convinced by the same arguments he uses to convince the average, uneducated south african.

    it’s true that you can get all sorts of info on people, but my personal feeling at this time is that the Carte Blanche producer gave him my details (i had to enter them when i submitted the story suggestion for a follow up). Especially given that the number is not in my name. I queried her on it and she did not deny it; rather she said my concerns had been ‘noted’ and then passed me on to someone else. Suspicious behaviour if you ask me, and i’m trying to follow up on it. Note that i am not accusing her – it’s just the most logical avenue and it hasn’t yet been denied.

  11. Yeah after some thought, it is too much of a coincidence that he called you directly after the Carte Blanche people contacted you. After all how else would he hear about you? The blog post has been up for ages since the story was aired. If you are ever mentioned/interviewed you should make a point of telling people that Carte Blanche gave out your contact details to a looney.
    BTW I found you address (not street) on site, you might want to remove that.

  12. moonflake: would you actually go, to Bloemfontein, to meet him and find out these “facts” – if we were to, say, get a fund going to get you there? I’m afraid I can’t sponsor plane tickets, but I’d certainly make a donation towards them!

  13. Con-Tester Says:

    Good stuff, moonflake!

    It seems to me that Danie Krugel and his adherents are hogtied by the intricate cords of their own delusion and are now too involved to free themselves of these fetters. Krugel’s device may have given the appearance of actually working once or twice – purely by chance, of course – and the myth gathered momentum from there. A second possibility is that the whole thing is a nefarious scam. These two possibilities are instances of the old adage that goes, “Oh, what tangled webs we weave when first we practise to deceive.”

    The third – and remotest – possibility is that Krugel has stumbled on something real, which is unlikely, because it would require a major rethink of well-established physics, and Krugel’s been at it for several years already without, as one would expect, drawing the attention of any significant scientific authority. His prevarications and reluctance to provide any clear answers and/or unambiguous and tightly controlled demonstrations are all therefore doubly suspicious.

    With regard to Krugel’s getting your contact details, it is worth bearing in mind that he used to be a policeman (he is sure to have retained some connections in SAPS), and he now works for Protection Services at Central University of Technology (CUT) in Bloem. His contact details are published on CUT’s web page here:
    http://www.cut.ac.za/sdirl?d=PROTECTION%20SERVICES

  14. Bast: thanks, done. And yeah, the timing did seem a little coincidental. BTW carte blanche have still not responded.

    Ross: Yeah, maybe if the fund included bodyguards. I’m not entirely certain this guy is above hiring some other ex-cops to physically convince me that his device works.

    con-buster: my best guess is that Danie is involved in talks with the Zimbabwean government, and has nearly convinced Rob Mugabe that he should buy the device for millions of dollars (US, not Zim!) so he can track all the people plotting against him. He just needs to keep up the patina of legitimacy until the deal goes through.

  15. James Laker Says:

    I wish it was true… I like science… but this is sooo fake. I mean seriously… Think of the wonderful things you can do, but then again, its only a fairytale and a scam (good one at it). Think of the money that can be made… and still this dude lives in Bloemfontein… Yah right. Somehow I doubt someone from there can stumble on something that great (Stepping on toes here… im sure). but wasnt there someone on Carte blanche that had this device also supposedly proving one of Newtons laws wrong… Also never heard from or of him again… Also from Bloemfontein… Maybe a reporter can check into the relationship between these guys… Pffft

  16. Brackshura Says:

    So you hide under a “FAKE” name and Danie not. Now you have disbelive in the invention that can solve a lot of investigations. You are “CHICKEN” to go to Bloemfontein to experiance it first hand. What are you hiding?????

  17. Brackshura: if that was satire, it was satire so well done that I can’t be entirely sure you aren’t serious. If that was serious… well, all I can say is when you finally get to Grade 8 at school and start doing real science subjects, you will understand the issue a little better.

  18. Saint Onan Says:

    The three month deadline has passed now, hasn’t it? Does Mr Krugel now qualify as a liar by his own admission?

  19. […] of a device that can supposedly find anyone, anywhere, with merely a snippet of their hair – made a promise to me: Danie also made a deal with me: in the next three months, there will be some big event regarding […]

  20. Hi

    I would like to get hold of Daniel. Does anyone have his number? I have a 10 million rand offer for him

    Any help will be appreciated

    Kind regards

    Jeremy +447958678204

  21. Hi Daniel

    If you are reading this blog…I need your help, please could you contact me

    Kind regards

    Jeremy

  22. Jeremy: i’m afraid I don’t have contact details for Danie Krugel – you could try contacting Carte Blanche.

    May I inquire as to the nature of this offer you have for him? Is it similar to the James Randi Challenge?

  23. jeremy thomson Says:

    Hi Moonflake, I am not sure if my message got through. But I wanted to ask Danie if he would be able to hlep in the search for Madeleine Mccann, a 4 year old girl who was abducted 2 weeks ago in Portugal. It is the biggest lost person search in Europe ever. There is a £2.5 Million pound reward for finding her. Her website has had 50 million hits in 3 days. I wanted to ask if I could call him and ask for his help, fly him to Portugal if possible to help in the search. I remember seeing his sho on Carte Blanche when I was in SA in November last year and though he may be able to find her.

    My email address is jeremy@itcontacts.com. Please let me know if you can get hold of him or someone who kows him. Many thanks

  24. jeremy: please actually read what i have written about Danie. I think then you can understand that I cannot in good conscience help you to get into contact with him, any more so than i would help you get into contact with Sylvia Browne or John Edward.

    If after all I have written you are still so desperate that you would risk the cost of flying over a charlatan, then I’m afraid you are on your own. I will not assist you in wasting resources that could actually be used in finding this girl.

    I urge you to read this article regarding Danie’s previous involvement in another missing persons case.

    Varenda said she and her husband were still bitter about the person who had assisted them in trying to trace their son using what is claimed to be cutting-edge technology, using DNA from a missing person‘s hair threads to track them down.

    The technology was featured on television earlier this year when a private investigator demonstrated the method of slowly narrowing down an area where a missing person might be through the DNA tracking technique. But very little was revealed about the exact mechanics of the process.

    Varenda, who provided some hair from a razor blade, said the person who had assisted them had told them their son “was on the move from Knysna and then in Transkei and then in St Lucia”.

    “He said Rayno was moving fast. It was a joke. We travelled 7 000km around the country.”

    Do you honestly want to subject Madeleine’s parents to this, on top of everything they are going through right now?

  25. Carte Blanche has done another story on Danie Krugel. This time involving the Gert van Rooyen case.
    Has any more scientific evidence to either support or dismiss claims become available?

    A follow up on him and Carte Blanche’s persistent support would be appreciated.

  26. John Anderson Says:

    moonFLAKE
    I have met people like you before, sceptic, bad-mouthing people who are actually doing something with physics. Quantum entangled lasers that are split can bend with no refraction by merely bending the sister beam… does this mean they are quacks too because you do not understand the mathematics? Get an education, then re-evaluate the fundamentals before you glorify yourself in the process of discrediting Danie without any facts. Danie must have thought you where an idiot. A grown man that can’t afford a plane ticket! Kalula.com has discount coach rates, go on moonFLAKE, put it on 36 months budget, ha!

    Props to Danie for actually finding people with his satellite physics system. Last night on Carte Blanche Danie put his system to the test, the big event he was speaking about, the International attention… Danie has more than enough important people to glad hand, you can’t even get your ass to Bloemfontine. Why should Danie waste his time with you? You’re a low-life moonFLAKE, only because you discredit a man without a grain of evidence.

    Jeremy: You go and get Danie’s number, you give him the DNA and he’ll find the girl, he’s done it many times and he’ll do it again. Pay no attention to these sceptics; it’s like a Spanish inquisition in here!

  27. Please add all new comments regarding Danie Krugel to the latest post here.

  28. Moonflake, it seems that you are obsessed with Danie’s invention. The fact that he has failed in some attempts does not discredit the workings of the device. It is very easy for you to discredit him, you have nothing to loose except feeling a little embarrassed for a minute or so. He has everything to loose. So why don’t you go on national TV and convince the whole world from a scientific & mathematical perspective why his device is impossible.

  29. FlatWorld Says:

    Always painfully interesting to read the skeptics! They normally use some out of context law somewhere to despute the fact that the earth is round! They don’t contribute to this world, they just subtract from it! They use words such as “Bloemfontein” and other rascially implied statements to try to disprove the possibility that something would be possible! They know nothing about science and about the possibilities of science. Go read the works of Professor David Bohm, renowned physicist, to see how two complete seemingly unrelated points in space can actually be related! Newton’s laws are under threat in any case friends. Einstein already subjected them to his theories. Scientists have learned that you have to describe the context in which your theory seems to be true for it to have any real validity! I don’t think Danie needs to prove anything to you and there is no reason why he should be humiliated for the possibility to get a few lousy bucks! He will get easy funding when and if he needs it without the embarrasment! At this moment, what is important is that Danie gets the opportunity to help as many people as possible and that the secrets of his equipment remans protected. If he can’t help in cases and turns out to be a fraud, then he should be exposed but from what I can gather he has more than proven his technology with valid cases and he should be allowed the opportunity to continue to do so! For somebody on this site to state that he should not be allowed a change to find a missing person because their psycopathic blindness won’t allow them to look further, just shows why the world does not need you! Also, to read on these skeptics sites that the supporters of Free-Energy are actually proponents of perpetual motion are so far fetched so as to be a perfect illustration of a fraternity that just talks and parrots each other but never reads or listens what is actually been said! I have never seen a Free-energy machine in my life but I have read a lot on what they say and I have never found any evidence that they are talking of perpetual motion. Zero-point energy is actually been researched in more formal capacity at many universities, and I suppose you won’t know what it means because you need to understand enough of quantum mechanics to be able to relate to this! Play the ball man and leave the person out of it!

  30. VoiceOfReason Says:

    Dude, FlatWorld, seriously: don’t you get on the quantum mechanics bandwagon if you think that Newton’s Laws are in any shape or form “threatened” by Einstein’s “submission” of them. Because you just prove your own ignorance, whilst trying to hide it in thick layers of jibbyjabber.

    Einstein’s equations all very elegantly reduce to Newton’s Laws under the conditions for which Newton’s laws were formulated (albeit that Newton didn’t know the restrictions of his own work at the time, CERN not having been around to play around with fast particles and all that jazz).

    Which means that the theories of relativity are superior in the sense that they are more generally applicable, but as any scientist or engineer will point out: when you build a car, you pull out Newton’s equations and build according to F = m x a. Which does not make your average car any less safe than if it was built using Einstein’s work (at least not, driving it at speeds a bit slower than the speed of light).

    The scientific method is rather well-documented, and it is worrying that you are unwilling to submit Danie to the same stringent guidelines as all the science you so liberally mix into your argument pot.

  31. Greetings earthlings,

    I just want to state here that the “device” in question does not exist on this planet yet.
    Unless Daniel Krugel is from another temporal area from about 561 years from now, he is lying or hiding the real truth. We have no prove that the device has made it’s way to this temporal paradigm.

    Splundig Vur Thrigg
    Zaphod, friend of Tharg

  32. Jason says:

    “Hi there,

    I know this is an old post, but your details are pretty easy to find. xxxx contains your email address which when you search google brings up xxxx which contains your full name. From that its then pretty simple. You can either check university records or continue using google. Basically xxx-xxxx was your home number, and you lived in xxxx. The list goes on…”

    Thanks Jason, you make a good point. However, I need to make a few of my own – just because you found some information about me doesn’t mean I appreciate you sharing the links with all and sundry, so i have deleted your comment. If people are going to stalk me I would prefer they do their own dirty work. Secondly, that information is old and no longer applies. So yes, while it would be possible to get some outdated information on me from the InterNets, the particular piece of information we are talking about is not available. If you would like to prove to me that it is, please give me a call at the same number DK reached me on.

  33. I knew you would be checking the post before publishing it, so I included the links so you could see what I was looking at. Otherwise you wouldnt have believed me😉 . You also forgetting one important piece of info. Not only was DK a cop, but he also has uni contacts. With the details I found, he could easily get your ID number and access your personal info from bank accounts, cell phone contracts or licenses. The new fica act gives government agencies access to this information.

    I’ll dig around a bit more and see what else I can find.

  34. 1 hour later and I’ve found 1 photo of you (2003) as well as your high school and matriculation year. I can only assume your cell number was found via the SAPS system.

    Btw, Carey-lee says Hi 🙂

  35. while all of that may be true, you miss one important piece of information… the cell number he called me on isn’t registered to me😉

  36. oh and FYI the only reason i had the opportunity to ‘review’ your post was because WordPress thought it was spam. It would otherwise have merrily appeared on the blog without my intervention. That said, none of the information is particularly sensitive… i don’t live there anymore, I don’t use that email address anymore, and I’m not really bothered by people finding out i’m not lying about my qualifications. About the worst that could actually come of it is people reading some really old blog posts. But, like I said, if people are going to bother to stalk me, they can do their own dirty work.

  37. I would have found your number too if you were trying to ruin somebodys life. This is a good man trying to help honest people, and all you guys can do is rant on a blog, get a life and try and do something constructive with your life instead of adding your 24k worth of useless text on a blog. We should be grateful that anyone is trying to do something to help reduce crime in south africa, anything is better than our 1000 murder a month stat.
    Change the world dont undermine it.

  38. Maybe this is the event?

    http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0710_maddie.shtml

    But how could you predict such a thing happening ……………………………?

  39. So… Danie doesn’t want to talk about it over the phone… thats reasonable.
    You want him to pay for your airfare to Bloem to see it at the university… thats unreasonable.
    I fail to see how you pointed anything other than the fact that you are a chop out.

  40. The sky is blue or is it?

  41. I’m not convinced that you, with so much emphasis on the finding of a phone number, actually have grasped anything here.

    I am not saying that I believe in the device, in fact I do not, but I see nothing here that suggests to me that you are working on anything more than a similar hunch.

  42. my reasons for not believing in the device are based on a solid knowledge of science, not a hunch. You may want to check out the other posts on this blog on the topic of Mr Krugel before you make any hasty assumptions as to emphasis.

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